Lyon game assumes greater importance after latest league collapse
Posted by Neil Jones | Posted in Champions League, Discussion, Features, Liverpool FC, Premier League | Posted on 02-11-2009
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Halloween has never been my favourite time of year. Scores of chipper children descending upon my house armed with macabre costumes and begging bowls? Not for me. But even that ghastly vision could not compare with events at Craven Cottage this weekend, as Liverpool put on a horror show of their own in a 3-1 collapse to Roy Hodgson’s Fulham.
In many ways it was the manner in which Rafa Benitez’s depleted side had so bossed their west London counterparts for the best part of an hour, before collapsing like a soggy house of cards in the final quarter, which gives Reds most cause for alarm. Liverpool were, as Benitez likes to say, “controlling the game” before each of Fulham’s first two goals, by the end of the game they were controlling little but their own demise.
Injuries and illness didn’t help, depriving Benitez of several first teamers – Glen Johnson, Steven Gerrard, Alberto Aquilani, Daniel Agger & Fabio Aurelio amongst the most important – but the same could also be said for Fulham, who were minus skipper Danny Murphy and striker Andy Johnson, as well as midfielder Simon Davies. The fact that it was the hosts who handled their situation better is a damning indictment of Liverpool’s failings on their travels this season.
Liverpool, with Andriy Voronin partnering a partially-fit Fernando Torres in attack, were controlled without being clinical. In midfield Lucas Leiva and Javier Mascherano put in good shifts and used the ball well, whilst there was plenty of promise in the link-up between Dirk Kuyt and Philipp Degen down the right, and from Yossi Benayoun roaming infield from the left.
And yet, after 24 minutes of this pattern, it was Fulham who struck first. Emiliano Insua patently has plenty to learn about being a top-level full back, and it was he who was caught flat-footed and out-of-position as Bobby Zamora trundled in to convert Damien Duff’s cross from close range. Benitez made a point of speaking with the young Argentine at half-time, presumably stressing the need to stay switched on when defending. Insua has his fans at Anfield, but still has to convince most.
Of course by that time, Liverpool were level. Torres has shown only flashes of menace in the opening period, but he pounced with ruthless efficiency to lash home a loose ball from the edge of the box after Voronin’s misdirected header had bounced free off Brede Hangeland. It was the Spaniard’s tenth league goal of the season, one shudders to think where Liverpool might have been without him. As it happened, the answer would become clear within twenty minutes of the restart.
Liverpool were still on top, without being overly-threatening, when the fourth official’s board went up. Torres off, Ryan Babel on. Disdain poured down from the away end, but Benitez was adamant that El Nino’s withdrawal was down to his fitness, and nothing else. A reasonable claim, considering the fact that his side face a must-win Champions League clash at Lyon on Wednesday, for which they are likely to be minus at least Gerrard, but one which says more about the distrust Benitez has for his fringe players than anything else.
And one which may also explain why, after Erik Nevland had restored Fulham’s lead, leaving the Reds chasing yet another game; he opted to withdraw Benayoun for Nathan Eccleston – a Premier League debutant. A knock to either Torres or Benayoun at this point would have given Liverpool a gargantuan task just to keep their European campaign alive, such is the paucity of options available to Benitez. The ‘contributions’ offered by Voronin, Babel and Eccleston here are testament to this.
To be fair, Benitez can hardly be blamed for the dismissals which followed. Philipp Degen, another making his Premier League bow, had already shown a worrying tendency to get caught dawdling upfield, before his ill-advised, yet far from malicious, lunge at Clint Dempsey drew a straight red card from referee Lee Mason. With Johnson, and even young understudy Martin Kelly, injured, the right-back slot could be a problem area for Benitez over the next few weeks.
As could the central defensive berth. Jamie Carragher was deemed fortunate by many to escape a red card for a tangle with Michael Owen last week, but he received no such let-off here when Zamora tumbled under his challenge. Replays suggest Carragher can feel aggrieved, but Mason was decisive in brandishing another straight red. Benitez says the club will appeal, common sense says it is a waste of paper.
Dempsey ran in a third against a dishevelled nine-men, and Chelsea’s comprehensive dismantling of Bolton leaves Benitez staring at a nine-point deficit to top spot. Five league defeats in eleven matches is mid-table form, and the performance of some of the club’s second string players – Babel, Voronin, Degen – gives even greater cause for concern, especially with such a lengthy injury list.
Lyon on Wednesday represents the latest in a seemingly endless string of “must-win” matches. To be out of the League and Champions League picture before Bonfire Night has been and gone would signal a disaster. It is time for another one of those back-to-the-wall performances, the kind that are being required far too frequently for most people’s liking.
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The thing is neil that rafa has no regards what so ever in trying to win the PL he proved that on sat by taking off torres on 60 mins when he said he had an injury when we could clearly see that torres was shocked to be subbed its obvious he has his sights set on the CL than the PL when the thing us loyal fans want more than anything is the PL title but as been shown over the past season and a bit rafa isnt really that interested in the PL he’d rather be successful in the CL the sooner he is replaced with a manager that has the balls and the managment skills 2 manage LFC the sooner we will get back on track so c’mon kenny help us out.
Kev, I have to respectfully disagree.
The Torres (and Benayoun) substitutions may appear baffling, but consider that we face Lyon tonight minus at least six (probably eight) players. An injury to either player would have left us really stretched. Benitez (and Torres) felt it would take 4 days to recover from the Fulham game, and the decision was made to give him an hour, rather than using him as an impact sub. The fact that Liverpool had not done enough to win the game in that hour should not detract from the fact that Torres’ long term fitness is more important to the club.
The Benayoun issue was perhaps harder to understand, but in Gerrard’s absence Yossi is the one player we have who can create chances in tight games. To lose him to a knock in the final third at Fulham would have wiped our chances in Lyon out, and Benayoun is, I believe, a player who needs to be fresh to have an impact.
Lets not forget that, had it not been for two questionable red cards, we would surely have laid siege to Fulham’s goal in the final 15 mins, and perhaps succeeded. It was a bad day all round.
Benitez has his critics, but for me he is being overly-castigated for mistakes which – in a lot of cases – go far beyond him. It is all well and good proposing new signings, tactical systems or management styles, but if we do not have the means to implement them, then what is the point? I think Rafa is the best man for the job at Anfield, he is a workaholic, he knows his players, he knows how to set a side up more often than not, and his transfer record is ridiculously complained about.
As for “he’d rather be successful in the CL”….do you blame him? Can you think of one or thirty million reasons why it is in the club’s best interests (both short and long term) to be in the last 16 of that competition? We fans may desire the Premier League, but you can’t always get what you want, and I’d settle for a healthy, competitive club all day.
Neil you have got it all wrong,wrong,wrong my friend how can you still say rafa is the right man 4 the job (am i missing something here!) u also say rafa was right to take off torres and yossi? u said in ur last post we would of laid siege to fulham with who if our best 2 players was subbed kuyt,voronin,babel certaintly cant unlock championship defences let alone premiership! another thing u said so what if rafa wants to do well in CL? so you’d rather the CL than the PL? i dunno about you and a lot more fans on here but we want the PL title not the CL we are the most successful english team in champs league i want the PL thats what i want every season but it will NEVER EVER happen as long as rafa is in charge! he is a loser in every department the sooner other people realise this the quicker we can move on,just look at his crap signings over the past few seasons the likes of chelsea got drogba,anelka,kalou arsenal have RVP,bendtner,eduardo and mancs have rooney,berbatov,owen who rafa could of singed for free. who have we got apart from torres? voronin worst player to ever put on the shirt! ngog to light weight babel hasnt got it kuyt just runs all the time first touch awful needs 5-6 chances to score one! who read the papers today rafa said in his interview that it will be a massive achievment if we win “it will give us a platform to build on! listen to this prick we should of gone on after beating the mancs that was something to build on yet we lose to fulham ha!ha! he is one big joke who doesnt know what he’s talking about half of the time so neil i dunno about you but i want the prem title but this is another season where rafa has fcuked up how long is he gonna keep doing this? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
Kev,
Two opposing opinions will never meet in the middle, but I am certain that Benitez is far from a “loser in every department”, and that Voronin is far from “the worst player to ever pull on a shirt”.
It is hard not to react when we are struggling at a time when most – myself included – believed we would be flying, but if you believe a manager who guided us – with the 5th most expensive squad in the league, the 5th biggest gate receipts and the 5th highest wage bill – to within 4 points of Sir Alex Ferguson’s “best ever” United team, having challenged all the way, less than six months ago needs to be sacked, then I simply cannot understand you.
Do you believe Benitez is to blame for every single element of Liverpool’s failings? He wanted rid of Voronin this summer, Hertha failed to reach the CL and so pulled out, then Benitez was told there would be no new striker funds available and therefore it was easier to retain Voronin – an international striker if not an exceptional (or even very good) one – than to throw our eggs at the raw kids in the academy (none of whom, except maybe Dalle Valle, look anything special). Both Babel and Ngog have raw materials from which to make an impact, Babel is underachieving and frustrating, but both score as regularly as the likes of Bendtner, Kalou or Sturridge, who our rivals are relying upon as backup.
We can bemoan the fact that Owen slipped through the net, but his indifference to the club, his injury record and his wages meant it was a far riskier move than people would have you believe.
Alonso and Arbeloa wanted to go. Sure, we could have forced them to stay, but does that achieve anything? Not really. We got a fair price for Alonso, great player but £30m for a wantaway is good money, and as yet we have been unable to use his replacement. When Aquilani has had a run of games, and the team is settled, then we will see a different picture I am sure.
And you have really misunderstood me re: CL v PL. Not once have I said I would rather win one or the other – I want both. The point is financial. If we go out of the CL early, we lose money. Money that we really need if we are to challenge for the PL (and CL) in the future. If you are not happy with Rafa’s signings in the last few years, see how you like our shopping list when the CL money has been removed. Make no mistake, the two competitions are intrinsically linked, especially when a club is in such financial turmoil.
Its a good debate mate, and I will never deny that Benitez has made mistakes – Dossena is awful scouting, the Keane saga was badly handled by all at the club, and Babel’s inconsistency hints at something deeper than a lax attitude – but I still think RB is our man, and deserves our backing as such.
Neil
How can RB be our man – after 5 years in charge we have made no progress whatsoever.
Your point is valid about the CL we MUST qualify and that’s one reason why he should go now otherwise it will be too big risk.
Alonso “wanted to go” – why ? Because of the woeful man managmenet skills of RB – he is fully to blame.
Owen stated he would come back – his wages are one of the lowest in the PL at Shite FC.
Does anyone think RB is responsible for all the failings ? Certainly not – but absolutely 100% culpable.
Many would argue that we threw the Title away last season – woeful team selection at Middlesbrough, defending at Arsenal when they went down to 10 men,
holding midfield players and only one striker at home to Hull etc.
Why did Keane go – he was caught in the middle of the personal ego battle of RB. No desire to protect the club and keep Keane just in case we had an injury to Torres – no Rafa’s ego and political battle was put before the wellbeing of the Club. Keane could easily have been offloaded in the summer.
Had Keane been able to score a couple of goals in the Jan / Feb period last season we could have won the title – it was more important for RB to get rid of Parry and blame him for the mess that was developing.
If he was half as good as a football manager as he is at being a manipulative clown we would all be singing for him.
Benitez has conned LFC and has run out of excuses – stick with this clown and your worst nightmares are only just sarting.
Mate,
You cannot honestly believe half of what you have typed there?
No progress in 5 years? Hmm ok:
2003/2004 – Finished 4th, 32 points off the Champions.
2008/2009 – Finished 2nd, 4 points off the Champions
Winning two major trophies in that period, despite the emergence of huge financial forces in Chelsea, and now Manchester City, an Arsenal which has the backing of a cashcow stadium, and the resurgence of a giant club down the M62.
Alonso’s reasons for leaving were not simply down to RB’s man-management. They were combined with financial/tax worries, and a desire to educate his child in Spain. Benitez wanted Gareth Barry back in 2008, and guess what? He needed to offload before he could buy….pattern emerging even then?
“Threw away the title?” – do you not think every Manchester United/Chelsea/Arsenal fan thinks the same whenever they drop points? His “poor team selection” at Boro preceded our best run of the season, soon after that game at Boro we thrashed United, stuffed Real Madrid and dropped just two further points in the league. How easy is it to point to dropped points and blame the manager? What about the points he earned us with astute substitutions or tactical switches – Ryan Babel from the bench against United perhaps? Do they not count? You can’t blame the manager when things go wrong and then credit the players when it goes right….there needs to be a balance.
Keane issue is hazy. But for sure, finances played a part. My understanding is that Benitez was under the impression that a new striker would be coming in as Keane’s replacement – either last January or this summer – and this was not possible. He didn’t utilise him perfectly, but Keane was not blameless, and considering we dropped just five points from the fifteen games after he departed, it is hard to agree that his absence cost us the title (incidentally, he was in the team for many of our ‘costly’ draws – Stoke, Villa, Fulham, West Ham.
Holding midfielder and only one striker at home to Hull…had nothing to do with the result. It was poor defending, from Dossena mainly. Riera, Alonso, Kuyt, Gerrard, Benayoun. Is that not enough attacking quality to beat Hull? It should have been, but on that occasion we didn’t manage to do so, so it gets laid on the manager. 9 times out of 10, we win the game and no one asks a question.
Clown? Nightmares? You do not know you are born mate. G&H wanted Jurgen Klinsmann at one point, and I bet people were behind that. Benitez may not be Mr Charisma, Mr Perfect or Mr Shankly, but he is a good manager doing a good job in difficult circumstances and against very tough opposition.
2003 / 2004 won nothing
2008 / 2009 won nothing
I guess it’s a question of how you measure pogress.
2 major trpohies “won” on penalty shoot outs after preferring Kewell to Hamman – tactical genius !
Why would you want Barry instead of Alonso unless you are soleley tuned in to negative tactics full stop.
The Keane point is missed completely – he has two legs and gave us a second option – we don’t have one now.
Thrashed United, stuffed Real Madrid and won nothing
Riera & Kuyt hardly scare defences shitless do they ?
We lose – Benitez blames the Yanks – we win Benitez takes the credit. C’est la vie !
Some of us were born a long time ago when we didn’t get crap like “it is not necessary to win a trophy this season” from our manager.
Surely you don’t think failing to get in to the top four will be a dream !!!
Tough opposition – Sunderland, Fulham – I guess it’s a question of how you measure progress.
Come on now, how I measure progress? Is a 28 point differentiation in points not progress? Is finishing 2nd the same as finishing 20th? Were we in a better position in 1992 when Souness guided us to an FA Cup? No.
Liverpool may be the most successful club in England historically – sadly for me it predominantly happened before I was of a knowledgeable age – but they do not have a birthright to success. Success takes hard work, from top to bottom, and a bit of luck. Anyone who doubts that Liverpool are in a better position than when RB took over really has some huge blinkers on.
The fact is: only one team can win the league each year, and the team that has won the league in each of Benitez’s five seasons has been better equipped and better financed than Liverpool. Chelsea had a blank cheque under Mourinho, United had license to spend £15m plus on squad players. Liverpool have had to shop in the mid bracket, therefore it is logical to expect a few flops along the way – though the current bile being thrust in the direction of Babel, Riera and poor Ngog by some ’supporters’ is nothing short of ridiculous if you ask me.
And please, do not insult supporters by suggesting that the CL or FA Cup success were flukes. It is a tired argument that simply doesn’t stand up under any sort of scrutiny. You can fluke a lottery win, not a European Cup.
Hindsight is an exact science. Nothing ever goes wrong with hindsight, but the real world is riddled with decisions to be made. Some go right, some go wrong. Only in hindsight does the ‘right’ decision become obvious.
Riera and Kuyt have their limitations, but they are good options. Better than most in the Premier League – Kuyt alone had 12 goals and 8 assists last season. So to dismiss their presence is folly.
Tough opposition was more in reference to Chelsea, United, Tottenham, Arsenal & Man City, all of whom enjoy massive backing, relative continuity in the board room and are still within Liverpool’s sights.
The Keane point was not missed at all. Maybe you don’t understand. Benitez was told to sell him, was reluctant to do so, but was assured that a replacement would be bought. It was not, so he (and we) were lumbered with Voronin, Babel and Ngog, all of whom have two legs also, albeit players who are out of form (Babel esp).
And please, do not try and hide behind the “Rafa blames the Yanks” argument. The ownership saga influences the game on the field, whether you admit it or not. Benitez makes mistakes, as I have admitted myself, but the charges levelled at him on this thread are way over the top. Way over the top.